Thursday, July 14, 2005

Torture? What Torture?

The abuses at Abu Ghraib shocked the world. The alleged torture of detainees created a wave of popular discontent in America and other countries. The Whitehouse immediately responded with the following press release in May 2004:

President Bush views the Abu Ghraib prison abuses as abhorrent.

What took place at Abu Ghraib does not represent America, which is a compassionate country that believes in freedom. America sent troops into Iraq to promote freedom.

There are investigations under way to determine how widespread abuse may be occurring.

President Bush has instructed Defense Secretary Rumsfeld to find the truth and then tell the Iraqi people and world the truth. Then, to address the problems in a forthright, up-front manner.

These actions of a few people do not reflect the nature of the men and women who serve our country.
Truly, this will reassure American citizens and the world over that the Bush Administration will not tolerate this kind of behavior. These kinds of deplorable techniques are just isolated cases of abuse, certainly not a systemic trend within the Pentagon itself.

Well... not exactly.
I don't know what the hell torture constitutes!

It seems the same kind of behavior that landed seven enlisted soldiers in jail is wrong in Iraq but okay in Cuba. According to a report recently released by military investigators, the same abuses in Abu Ghraib were a clone of techniques used in Gitmo:
The techniques, approved by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld for use in interrogating Mohamed Qahtani -- the alleged "20th hijacker" in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks -- were used at Guantanamo Bay in late 2002 as part of a special interrogation plan aimed at breaking down the silent detainee.

The report's findings are the strongest indication yet that the abusive practices seen in photographs at Abu Ghraib were not the invention of a small group of thrill-seeking military police officers. The report shows that they were used on Qahtani several months before the United States invaded Iraq.

The investigation also supports the idea that soldiers believed that placing hoods on detainees, forcing them to appear nude in front of women and sexually humiliating them were approved interrogation techniques for use on detainees.
Major General Geoffrey Miller, who commanded the Guantanamo detention facility and later responsible for major US operations in Abu Ghraib, was accused of improper supervision of Qahtani during his interrogation at Gitmo. The report recommended punishment for Miller, but General Bantz Craddock, head of U.S. Southern Command, refused:
My reason for disapproving that recommendation is that the interrogation of [Qahtani] did not result in any violation of a U.S. law or policy. And the degree of supervision provided by Major General Miller does not warrant admonishment under the circumstances.
The report goes on to describe the abuses as "creative" and "aggressive", but stopped short of calling them "torture." Nor does the report delineate what would constitute torture within the scenarios documented.

So, this is US Liberty and Justice? The administration and Pentagon deny any wrongdoing and arbitrarily punish soldiers who are simply doing what they are told. The public is told the situation is not "torture" (without identifying what is torture) and the military throws blame on its lowest ranks.

I am not sure which is more wrong: the abuse, the coverup of the abuse, punishment of the innocent, or the redefinition of torture. Any sane individual can see how these heinous acts have rotted out any logic they may once have had. Abuse is abuse. These means have no possible justifiable end for any country, certainly not MY country.

This abuse must stop.


At 9:10 AM GMT-5, Blogger Max Creel said...

While the military stop short of describing torture, your inflammatory remarks do the same.

You certainly have no idea of how interrogations are conducted, much less suggest how to extract information from an enemy combatant/terrorist. Once again you proudly display your “Blame America” attitude. Your seditious statements are obvious.

I guess you would call it “abuse” if we were to feed them pork meals three times daily. Let the SOB’s eat pork or starve as far as I am concerned. Quite simply it’s a choice on their part. Eat what is presented or go hungry. I can see it now in the MSM and blog’s like yours: FOOD ABUSE AT GITMO; DETAINEES TORTURED BY SWINE. The pig’s sacrifice would do this country a great service.

Have you read the menu for the terrorist at GITMO? They eat chicken (killed by “halal” method) with cashews while our boys eat MRE’s. Do you even know how much “halal” chicken cost, or even the definition thereof?

You and your kind are an enemy within. Your constant attacks on the Administration and our military are showing your true colors: Socialism. Blame America. Nikita Kruschev once stated “we will defeat you without firing a shot”. He was speaking of persons and groups just like you, amongst others, as an “enemy within”.

Whether you believe it or not, this is a religious war, because the enemy has made it just that. They use you and your kind to further their cause. As I stated to you a few days ago, I am writing an op-ed which discusses, in part, persons and groups like yourself assisting the enemy, knowingly or unknowingly.


At 1:39 PM GMT-5, Blogger the prisoner said...


You have been so courteous and reasonable a conservative up to this point. I wonder if you realize the ire in your own words in your "it's all OK as long as we get what we want" attitude.

That's not what I as an American citizen believe. Not that you have to agree with me, of course. Calling me "seditious" is outright scandalous. Can you truly believe that? If it is seditious to point out where I disagree with an important government policy, then I hope we all are. Because that is just as much in rebel America's past as anything else.

Bringing up the Gitmo menu has no bearing when it comes to the abuses at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib. I thought I wouldn't include the pictures of either, because that would be detracting from the ridiculous verbal rings this Administration has run around human rights issues.

What constitutes torture? I'd feel a lot better if Congress checked the Bush Admin's assertion that it knows best and provides me with a definition they are working from. As I explained in previous posts, the Bush Admin doesn't want a definition because then they would be held to it.

Though some conservatives have no idea what it means to be interrogated for months on end captive without charge in a prison for over three years, some POWs do and have been probably the most vocal in stopping this crap. So don't tell me I don't understand interogation when our own CIA and POWs decry what our government is doing.

Again, you can disagree with me, but how can you attack me so personally? Does that really make sense?


At 9:18 AM GMT-5, Blogger Max Creel said...

A few isolated incidence and unconfirmed reports do not constitute condoned widespread torture. Question: is humiliation torture?

Your statements “interrogated for months on end captive without charge in a prison for over three years,” They are enemy combatants, not covered by the Geneva Convention for POW’s. Read the Convention and learn. They have no rights as citizens of this country under the Constitution. Out legal system does not apply.

You further opine “some POWs do and have been probably the most vocal in stopping this crap.” Do you know claiming torture , amongst other assertions, is in the printed handbook (which have be found during raids) issued to these terrorist. I’ll say it again: You do not understand interrogation.

“…but how can you attack me so personally? Does that really make sense?” You do not even realize how much you are aiding and abetting the enemy. I take that very personally.

Have a good time off and enjoy the break.

PS: I don’t think you have too much to worry about with Hurricane Emily. The Bermuda Ridge is setting further west and south, which should help direct the system towards Mexico. But as an experienced hurricane watcher from the New Orleans area, you never know.


At 12:10 PM GMT-5, Blogger Chip Morgan said...

Great Blog!


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